Talk:Grand Theft Auto IV

We discuss about the article here. 😅

I marked the reference used for that contribution as "dubious" because it seems based on old source material:

• www-gta-ru.translate.goog/forums/gta_4/graficheskoe_sravnenie_gta_iv_xbox_360_vs_pc-928948/?_x_tr_sch=http&_x_tr_sl=ru&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=fr
• gta-fandom-com.translate.goog/wiki/Console_and_PC_Differences?_x_tr_sl=ru&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=fr
• /gtaforums-com.translate.goog/topic/525004-gta-iv-version-differences/?_x_tr_sl=ru&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=fr

Also, the screenshots used are from an Xbox emulator which is scaling the 720p version into 1080p.

Finally, while it seems that some details are indeed different, the author did not specify (AFAIK), which PC setting they used. PC setting is important, because I noticed that "View Distance" and "Detail Distance" have an influence on the car lights and the street lights. Some comparisons in the reference might not use that knowledge. (Edited in order to fix a typo)

Agree, seem to be good reasons to mark it as dubious, would even go as far as to say that if over time no one can provide a better source over time, the key point should be removed.

The "Xbox 360 emulator on an Xbox One" is just the weird Russian way of saying "I played the game through back-compat on my Xbox One" as there is no other X360 emu on the XOne other than the back-compat.

As for the settings, they are not that important for most of the comparisons, because if all the settings are at least medium (and I highly doubt the author of the comparison used lower settings, other than maybe night shadows) then all of the game's available graphical effects (that are there on PC) are in use, turning them up any further will only increase the clarity of the effects (or the amount of "wrinkles" in the water), the game will still look almost identical.

The settings are important only for the flickering comparison, because there are some rumors on the internet that if you change the view and detail distance to console-like settings there will be no flickering, because the game was designed for those values or something. I personally haven't looked into that. Also, the vast majority of PC helicopter gameplay on YT is gonna show flickering similar to the Russian comparison.

I myself have personally noticed that the vehicle reflections, volumetric lighting and rain are exactly as in the comparison (I play on all medium except high textures, no night shadows, 25 draw distance, 40 detail distance and 33 vehicle density).

Uhm, well, Xbox does support emulators, could still be that the user is using an Xbox 360 emulator other than back-compat, but indeed unlikely.

I disagree on the settings-thing; having different settings of course decreases the reliability of the comparison and subsequent claims made from the result. Because it could also be that the console shows "higher clarity" (assuming what you say about this is true and that is the only thing settings change..) of some effects compared to PC, making it still relevant.

As I said, using anything other than "Optimize Settings" (or whatever the UI says for "analyze my PC and set quality accordingly") might cause broken volumetric lightning. Yep. Sorry if this comment seems useless or weird. I'm using the Talk page for what it is: rambling. :P

@Bowi What does this have to do with the PC-console comparison? You mean that it can make this comparison less reliable?

"As I said, using anything other than "Optimize Settings" (or whatever the UI says for "analyze my PC and set quality accordingly") might cause broken volumetric lightning." --> First, never heard you mention this.... Also, never encountered this issue myself honestly, could you provide reproduction-steps and example-images to support this? Because honestly I would find it very weird if this indeed has something to do with the optimize settings option and is most likely just one of the settings breaking when set at a certain value? How does it break actually? What is the visual oddity that actually occurs?

Regarding the actual subject: I vote to remove the console comparison note; its source is just too unreliable, not same resolution used (1080p upscaled vs 1080p native, some effects in games can scale according to resolution), graphical settings PC-version unknown, source also says he got some info from other sources (could lead into a bit of tunnel-vision), article is in Russian and translated sources are always less reliable when wrongly translated etc. Anyone have any objections? Otherwise I'll remove the note in a few days and leave this discussion as reference if not.

"What does this have to do with the PC-console comparison? You mean that it can make this comparison less reliable?" Nothing. 😅 Sorry.

And... Yes... I did not explicitly mentioned that thing you are talking about. Sorry, I'm too "busy" enjoying "Cult of the Lamb". 😆

Watch out man, apparently that game is a crime against religion :P But just try to add steps and the manual steps soon, so users can profit from it and makes the wiki page just a tat better ;)

"Nothing. 😅 Sorry." --> Haha, I like you

But the optimize settings bug you mentioned that breaks volumetric lightning. Sure of that? See my comment from yesterday....

If anyone is interested, I did do a Xenia (Xbox 360 emu) and Native PC version comparison both at 4k and there are differences. https://youtu.be/zaKGpwn_0oc

Look at 0:37 for example, the shadows for the Xenia version are much softer

Also, the PC version is missing a fake HDR effect with light sources such as soda machines or PC monitors appearing brighter on the Xbox version.

I should also note that the PC version is on max settings.

There is also a difference of default values, however, I could never really get the PC version to look the same as the 360 in terms of brightness and contrast.

Very nice comparison, but sadly as the comparison is using an emulator and Xenia is still under heavy development, this could potentially also cause visual differences.... So, still can't be included as a good reliable source, but indeed makes this differences very likely. Hopefully someone with an XBox 360 can do a similar comparison at same resolutions.

The PC shadows depend on the patch, patch 4 and below use older shadow system like console. Also, console version has a different timecyc than PC (since the Graphical Bug Fixes mod comes with a console timecyc option).

The only real missing effect on PC is the motion blur while driving. It was in the console versions to compensate for the sub-30 FPS performance (especially on the second island) but had no use on PC. All the other differences are just that, different ways to implement the same effects.

What are you talking about, it's absolutely there, you just need to pick up speed for it to show up. And make sure definition is off, because on = no motion blur and DoF, off - motion blur and DoF (a very poorly named setting imo).

I checked yesterday, and the PC version definitely still has troubles with emmisive shaders. I already made the edits on the wiki, in the section about the FusionFix.

Should we add more info back into "Key Points"?

No, key points shouldn't be expanded. On the contrary, they are deprecated and should be axed in favour of a proper intro, which is the preferred way of introducing a game on the wiki.

Darn! Sorry, I just did an edit. Well... I'll look into this new layout you wrote about later. At least now the info is there. Sorry again.

Also, I'm sorry if I haven't been very communicative/reponding in the past.

I just checked the guideline about Introductions, and I'm not confident enough with my English writing skills, so I'll let that for someone else to do. :|

@Bowi Haha, I have more than enough fate in you that you could do that. But I'll do it now for you then :) Next time feel free to go at it yourself and if you make any grammar mistakes, we'll help you out, so don't hold back :)

I will! I read the guideline and I know it's quite simple anyway. As you said, people will help with the mistakes.

Old link that might still be useful.

This page is a minefield. Go mine it :P I've put some stuff in, but there's shittons more to add! • Masked Turk 15px (Talk | Edits) • 22:14, 12 May 2012 (UTC)

Really helpful link! Thanks Masked Turk.

Mods by 'nkjellman' are potentially incompatible with FusionFix. Graphics Fix Beta overwrites many 'win32' folders/files in common/shaders in the FusionFix zip. Both Graphics Fix and EFLC PC Quality Textures also overwrite vehicles.img.

Because of this if nkjellman's mods are installed after FusionFix they will remove some of the bugfixes featured in FusionFix. Perhaps there should be an instruction for an install order featured in the pcgamingwiki page.

Fixed

Why? The first "Key point" at the top of the article is the following: "Extensive modding community. Same with Grand Theft Auto: Episodes from Liberty City. See Downgrading." If the reader clicks on the "Downgrading" hyperlink, the first sentence they are invited to read is "ENB Series graphical enhancement was never meant to work on Patch 5 or later[33], and the particular ENB version must support Patch 8 (so also dax.dll fix included) (IV | EFLC), otherwise the game may display a black screen. This instruction is aditionally needed to fix the Social Club error on the RGL/Steam version."

What the heck is ENB? I don't personally know. Before explaining ENB, maybe we need to explain the numerous updates that the game got. I don't know, because I don't even know what ENB means. :P -Bowi (talk)

https://discord.com/channels/165183350913499136/696098598600966174/1006608887845228657

Oh... Right... I guess my question was also rhetorical. Anyway, I'll try to see if anything else has to be clarified in the article. :P

Done! I added a section about ENB nested inside the "Modifications" section, and moved the information about it from "Downgrading" to "ENB".

RGL stands for "Rockstar Games Launcher".

What is RGL?

Rockstar Game Launcher

oh... Nevermind... Rockstar Games Launcher... I guess we'll need to clear that out. 😅

Haha, agree

Section has been removed, likely fixed

So i got in my hands old Ati gpu (HD5770), which had for sure the water bug (aka the water is detail less). And now either because of newer drivers or Windows 10 or new 1.0.8.0 patch the water is working correctly. Can someone who had this bug confirm this?

Oh god, I was thinking nobody would ever report back about this anymore.

I do (well, did) have a 5770, but to be honest I have never experienced such a bug (.. perhaps because I always played at lowest settings? Lol I dunno)

Now that I check though.. Wtf? First of all, it seems weird this started to be a thing only in early 2010.

Second, there are people with nvidia cards too with this problem (also AMD's GCN cards)

Is there an easy way to change the language? They removed the in-game option, changing the language in Steam/RGL doesn't do anything and I don't want to switch my Windows language.

Find language files inside game folder(english one - american.gxt) and copy file with language what you want on top of the file with language you have. Eg I've copied american.gxt on top of russian.gxt to switch from Russian to English.

Each Episode has their own folder with language files, this must be done for them separately.

Check out this solution. Maybe it works in GTA IV too: https://www.pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/Max_Payne_3#Localizations

From checked solutions for now, you can follow this one: https://www.pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/Grand_Theft_Auto_IV#Game_language_doesn.27t_follow_Steam.2FRockstar_launcher_settings

Thank you, I renamed "mylanguage".gxt to american.gxt and it worked.

I've added the info in the top, to make it visible for as much people as possible. I also wrote here about it, because more people will be notified. It's nice gesture on R* part since a lot of music have been deleted.

I also recommend finding out some workaround for music restoration tool: https://www.pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/Grand_Theft_Auto_IV#Restore_removed_music if it doesn't work on R* version, since some people reported that launcher is capable of restoring modified files on launch after installation of language packs/fan translations, so probably it may affect this tool too. Disabling updates doesn't help. Maybe only offline play.

This post states music has been removed from a new patch. Should we update the article to reflect this?

I think so. Downgrader already available. Game version stays the same.

If someone makes a mod to add the music back in, then sure we can add a link.

http://gtaforums.com/topic/908658-iveflc-radio-downgrader/ haven't tried it yet

That link from the GTA forums will be taken down sooner or later, I think it's pointless to link something, but a note wont hurt.

According to GTA IV page on pcgamingwiki: "FXAA can be forced through the Nvidia Control Panel/AMD Control Center." How can I enable it from AMD Radeon Settings (AMD Crimson drivers) ?

Reshade, or RadeonPro.

Reshade is non vanilla stuff, no desire to bother myself with it. RadeonPro available only for RadeonPro gpu's ? I have AMD 7770.

Oh, not that RadeonPro, I get it. Will give a try.

Don't you have radeon settings control panel?

I'm not sure for SSAA or MSAA, but at least MLAA (which is better than FXAA, btw) I remember worked perfectly.

Oh wow ! MLAA will be a great choice :) Just found a page where you can find screens showing "No AA - MLAA" comparison with few games, including GTA IV. https://www.iryoku.com/mlaa/gallery/

I have latest AMD drivers, Crimson or Adrenaline, or how they called them now :) SSAA or MSAA wil be too heavy for my system, but MLAA should be a great choice, if it will work good with GTA IV. Thanks for advice, I will give a try.