Glossary talk:Controller

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Xinput ==> Directinput independent triggers [+rant]

11
Mirh (talkcontribs)
  • Playstation based [Dinput Wrapper for SCP Driver]
  • Some others (including wired X360) [XBCD drivers]
  • Wireless X360 [1] Still requires japanese force feedback driver (which has ghost inputs and make games crash), and.. triggers become digital

Besides, the page may even be more.. appealing and less.. textual than 6 months ago. Though really, sections are really shallow.

I mean.. we should think: "what could the average Joe need first?" Drivers? Info about APIs? Info about keyboard-only games? Would this make more sense in a dedicated page?
And Durazno is everything, but a DirectInput wrapper. If you don't/have the time to know what you are writing, stop it or write in the talk pages

EDIT: Xinput Plus probably address all issues altogether
EDIT2: seems like it lacks some of the different kinds of vibration

Voodooman (talkcontribs)

Thinking too much about average Joe and not giving detailed options to power user is what ruined PC gaming i recent decade. Average PC gamer is no average Joe. PC gaming wiki is about deep tweaks, deeps tweaks is not something that average Joe can handle. And what are you talking about? Did someone call Durazno a Dinput wrapper?

RaTcHeT302 (talkcontribs)

We should always presume that the user might be doing certain things for the first time, I try to keep my instructions complete but easy to follow without going over pointless details. I seriously don't give a shit about how certain things work once in a while, I'd rather just get to the point and be done with the, thingy I was doing. It's worse when someone gives you half assed instructions and expects you to figure out the other half by yourself, that happens way too often on other wikis, or anywhere really.

This page is a mess but I have no idea how to clean it up myself, I just don't know enough things about it to make the page look nice.

Edit: Also it's good to cater to a wide audience.

RaTcHeT302 (talkcontribs)

Unrelated but, holy fuck those keypoints are way too overkill. There's like 15 of them :v

Mirh (talkcontribs)

Did someone call Durazno a Dinput wrapper?
Yes, somebody did.

And for the records I was exactly saying that the page has been a little too much streamlined (Xinput+ description is a bit too verbose though)

PC gaming doesn't need to be elitist either.
What I'm wondering is: how may we handle the implicit reminder that if game is using DirectInput and you have a x360-like controller, you'll need these solutions?

Since it's a problem with every DI game and technically with OS/driver itself, it shouldn't be mentioned everywhere (it's not an issue on the game side). But then you'd have the case of the casual noob which just checks "NFSU2" or "TW3" and just reads those pages (the later of this having the inverse problem with Xinput of course)

Blackbird (talkcontribs)

DInput should redirect to generic information about it like it was mostly used in year etc. and you can use those wrappers for your XInput controller blahblah. Since I doubt DInput/XInput checkmark will be added to Input settings template (haha API section)
This page could be used for that kind of stuff yeah.

Mirh (talkcontribs)

It wouldn't still be enough.

I mean, who tells you you'd need additional step just because you choose a X360 controller instead of a PS4 one?
I mean, it's not intuitive.

Similar considerations also apply to DirectSound hardware buffers then

Blackbird (talkcontribs)

Pretty sure that'll become obvious when the controller can't be fully mapped.

Mirh (talkcontribs)

Assuming you are... smart, sure.

But even reading half a PCGW page can already be a tremendous mental effort for some people, if you know what I mean.

Blackbird (talkcontribs)

Tbh even simply drag and drop is hard for some people I know so eh :D

Garrett (talkcontribs)

Alternate drivers are controller-specific so should be covered on individual controller pages rather than the central controller page.

Reply to "Xinput ==> Directinput independent triggers [+rant]"
Nicereddy (talkcontribs)

I was planning on updating the Controller pages to use the new "Controller:" namespace Soeb kindly provided, but I've been bogged down with other things lately. I still plan on doing it myself in the near future if no one else does, but I figured I would at least give others the chance should they wish to convert the old pages to a newer unified format.

If you want to contribute, please try to make the articles follow the layout of the Controller:Xbox 360 Controller page I made, as that's the general template I'm going for with controller articles. Feel free to have discussions on this Talk page if you'd like to suggest any changes to it, or notice any exceptions with controller pages you're interested in making.

Anyway, here are all the older versions. If you'd like to, please update them to the new layout, put them in the proper Controller namespace, add an infobox, etc:

Controller:DualShock 3:

[[File:PlayStation3-DualShock3.jpg|thumb|PlayStation 3 controllers work with most games but require initial setup, unlike [[Xbox 360 Controller]]s.]]
'''Key points'''
{{++}} Controllers can be used as both wired (with a USB Mini B cable) and wireless (via Bluetooth).
{{--}} Requires initial setup to show up as a controller.
{{++}} Works with most games once set up correctly.
 
==Windows==
{{ii}} The central Home button acts as an Xbox 360 Guide button and cannot be used in games for other functions.
{{ii}} [[x360ce]] can be used to adjust controller settings and button assignments.

{{Fixbox|1=
{{Fixbox/fix|Install XInput Wrapper}}
# Uninstall MotionJoy or Better DS3 if either is currently installed.
# Download [http://forums.pcsx2.net/Thread-XInput-Wrapper-for-DS3-and-Play-com-USB-Dual-DS2-Controller XInput Wrapper].
# Extract with [http://www.7-zip.org 7-Zip] (or similar) somewhere convenient.
# Run <code>SCPDriver.exe</code> and install the driver. (If using XP/Vista make sure to check the <code>force install</code> option.)
}}

== Mac OS X ==
{{Fixbox|1=
{{Fixbox/fix|Add controller to Bluetooth Favorites - Mac OS X 10.7 (Lion) and newer}}
# Plug in USB
# Ignore pairing Request
# Go to Bluetooth Preferences (within about 15 seconds).
# Select "Connected" and "Configured" (but not "Paired"). You're looking for "PlayStation3 controller".
# Add the controller to the Favorites.
}}
{{Fixbox|1=
{{Fixbox/fix|Install Ps3Controller - Mac OS X 10.6 (Snow Leopard) and earlier}}
Download and install [http://tattiebogle.net/index.php/ProjectRoot/Ps3Controller Ps3Controller].
}}

== Linux ==
{{Fixbox|1=
{{Fixbox/fix|Install QtSixA}}
Download and install [http://qtsixa.sourceforge.net/ QtSixA].
}}

{{References}}

[[Category:Hardware]]
[[Category:Controller]]

Controller:Logitech Extreme 3D Pro:

{{stub}}
'''Key points'''
{{ii}} Throttle, twist, POV hat and 12 buttons.
{{ii}} Right-handed ergonomics.

==Drivers==
[http://www.logitech.com/en-us/support/extreme-3d-pro?section=downloads Logitech Gaming Software] (Windows and Mac OS X)

==Issues fixed==
===Set mouse axes on joystick===
The Logitech Gaming Software does not support using mouse axes with this controller; for alternatives see [[controller with keyboard-only game]].

[[Category:Controller]]

Controller:Logitech Gamepad F310:

{{stub}}
'''Key points'''
{{++}} Input mode compatibility switch on the back of the controller; use X for XInput games and D for DirectInput games (see [[Controller#XInput vs. DirectInput|XInput vs. DirectInput]]).<ref name="input mode">[http://logitech-en-amr.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/21696 Using the input mode switch on the Gamepad F310 to select DirectInput or XInput - Logitech FAQ]</ref>
{{ii}} Does not support vibration (unlike the [[Logitech Rumble Gamepad F510]] and [[Logitech Wireless Gamepad F710]]).

==Issues unresolved==
===Large deadzone===
The F310 has a Logitech created deadzone of around 20% of the analog sticks. This means that the controller can feel unresponsive and jerky, as subtle movements are not registered. This is not a major issues for games that do not force their own deadzones, but for titles like [[Dead Space]] which do they become almost unplayable, as only the most extreme analog stick movements are detected by the game.

==Issues fixed==
===Incorrect controls in some games===
{{Fixbox|1=
{{Fixbox/fix|Set input mode switch|ref=<ref name="input mode"/>}}
# Exit the game.
# Set the input mode switch on the back; use X for XInput (most recent games) or D for DirectInput (older games).
# Restart the game.
{{ii}} If you change the input mode while the game is running it might still not see the controller correctly.
}}

{{References}}

[[Category:Controller]]

Controller:Logitech Rumble Gamepad F510:

{{stub}}
[[File:Logitech Rumblepad F510, 2.jpg|thumb|The Logitech Rumble Gamepad F510 features vibration and compatibility with XInput games.]]
'''Key points'''
{{++}} Input mode compatibility switch on the back; use X for XInput games and D for DirectInput games (see [[Controller#XInput vs. DirectInput|XInput vs. DirectInput]]).<ref name="input mode">[http://logitech-en-amr.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/20400 Using the input mode switch on the Rumble Gamepad F510 to select DirectInput or XInput - Logitech FAQ]</ref>
{{ii}} Available in wireless form as the [[Logitech Wireless Gamepad F710]].

==Issues fixed==
===Incorrect controls in some games===
{{Fixbox|1=
{{Fixbox/fix|Set input mode switch|ref=<ref name="input mode"/>}}
# Exit the game.
# Set the input mode switch on the back; use X for XInput (most recent games) or D for DirectInput (older games).
# Restart the game.
{{ii}} If you change the input mode while the game is running it might still not see the controller correctly.
}}

{{References}}

[[Category:Controller]]

Controller:Logitech Wireless Gamepad F710:

{{stub}}
'''Key points'''
{{++}} Input mode compatibility switch on the top; use X for XInput games and D for DirectInput games (see [[Controller#XInput vs. DirectInput|XInput vs. DirectInput]]).<ref name="input mode">[http://logitech-en-amr.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/21360 Using the input mode switch on the F710 to select DirectInput or XInput - Logitech FAQ]</ref>
{{ii}} Available in wired form as the [[Logitech Rumble Gamepad F510]].

==Issues fixed==
===Incorrect controls in some games===
{{Fixbox|1=
{{Fixbox/fix|Set input mode switch|ref=<ref name="input mode"/>}}
# Exit the game.
# Set the input mode switch on the top; use X for XInput (most recent games) or D for DirectInput (older games).
# Restart the game.
{{ii}} If you change the input mode while the game is running it might still not see the controller correctly.
}}

{{References}}

[[Category:Controller]]

Controller:Microsoft SideWinder Strategic Commander:

{{stub}}
[[File:Ms sidewinder sc right.jpg|thumb|The Strategic Commander features programmable functions including keystroke recording.]]
'''Key points'''
{{++}} Programmable for a wide variety of functions.
{{ii}} Use [http://community.pcgamingwiki.com/files/file/21-strategic-engine/ Strategic Engine] for modern versions of Windows (the original software is no longer compatible).

'''General information'''
{{mm}} [http://wayback.archive.org/web/20021216090451/http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/sidewinder/devices/SComm/default.asp Official site] (archived)

==Issues fixed==
===Use with modern systems===
The original software is not compatible with modern versions of Windows; use [http://community.pcgamingwiki.com/files/file/21-strategic-engine/ Strategic Engine] instead.

[[Category:Controller]]

Thanks,

Nicereddy (talkcontribs)

I should also note that we can use images directly from the Wikimedia Commons without having to upload them manually to PCGW, so you can use images of controllers from Evan Amos' rather large collection here.

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