Talk:Dark Souls: Prepare to Die Edition

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Fiend (talkcontribs)

if possible can people test the Processor Affinity fix (https://www.pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/Dark_Souls:_Prepare_to_Die_Edition#Performances_issues) for performance issues? When i tested it my performance tanked but i'd like to see if it does the same for other people before i remove it from the article. Preferably testing common areas like firelink and parish as well as some of the more performance intensive areas like blighttown and chasm of the abyss.

Reply to "Processor Affinity testers"
Summary by Chick'n'Duck

Undid my edit

Chick'n'Duck (talkcontribs)

Karasuhebi writes:
»DLC doesn't need to be listed under Monetization because this version of the game (Prepare to Die Edition) came bundled with the DLC.«

I agree. I had a brainfart in that moment.
Karasuhebi (talkcontribs)

No worries, it happens!

Link Satonaka (talkcontribs)

I recently started experiencing this.

I'm interested in figuring out what actually causes this, and solutions that don't include physically moving hardware around or disabling devices.

In my specific case, I see a black screen for 20-30 seconds. If I *don't touch anything*, the game will eventually start. If, after starting the game, I interact with any other window, the game window will freeze. or otherwise fail to render anything but white.

Others who have this issue- could you simply not touch the computer, and wait for a minute, to see if the game does eventually start? I want to make sure this is the same bug.

Mirh (talkcontribs)

Usual, dumb, suggestion I always give: try to see with process monitor what happens just before (or between) the black screen.

Or, I dunno, check whatever is the bottleneck during those moments.

Reply to "Black screen on startup"
Mars icecream (talkcontribs)

It's a common PCGW practice on to state when a game is locked to 30fps. There's one user who wants to exclude that information and keeps reverting, it seems. A "console port" doesn't equal 30fps, not every console game is locked to 30. I dared to add the lock next to DSFix (should be its own key point), will likely be removed again :(

Link Satonaka (talkcontribs)

First, thank you for creating a discussion instead of further reverting edits.

The fact that the game is 30fps is explicitly mentioned here, http://pcgamingwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Dark_Souls%3A_Prepare_to_Die_Edition#DSfix

and of course, here as well http://pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/Dark_Souls:_Prepare_to_Die_Edition#Video_settings Notice the field where 60fps is not marked supported, only hackable.

Let's discuss what you actually submitted the first two times, keeping in mind this wiki is not here to berate things we don't like:


Frame rate is capped at 30 FPS by default, removing the cap sometimes causes various issues.


A game being 30fps is not a key point. The framerate is identified, as always, in the #Video_settings. Marking 30fps as a key point- no, I will revoke that every time. The hackability of 60fps and all side effects that come with it are discussed in the appropriate place lower down.

You're not stating facts here, and I'm not trying to supress the game's 30fps lock. You're redundantly stating information in such a way as to draw undue negative attention to it. Yes, I hate 30fps locks too. But a wiki is a place for objectivity, not agendas.

Blackbird (talkcontribs)

30 FPS is objectively horrible and if it can be raised then I fail to see why key point stating such is a problem.

Mars icecream (talkcontribs)
Link Satonaka (talkcontribs)

30fps is, unfortunately, incredibly common. If a game is capped to say, some arbitrary number like 17fps, that would be worth noting. "This is capped at a framerate most console ports are capped at" isn't noteworthy. It's just another line of information that belongs in the #video/input/audio_settings.


Where do you draw the line at what common thing is key note worthy? Why is it so important to mention fps, and not literally any of the other items in video/input/audio_settings info box? Is it a key point that games don't support 4K ultra HD, or surround sound audio, or that a game lacks control remapping, or has forced mouse acceleration?


>What information can be added to key points in your opinion?

This isn't my opinion. There is no room for mentioning conventional fps caps in the key points, as illustrated by the wiki guidelines: http://pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/PCGamingWiki:Editing_guide/Key_points_and_General_information#Key_points

The points provided should be information that regards major issues with the game (compatibility issues, critical bugs/crashes, non-functioning multiplayer, etc.), invasive DRM, availability enhancements/limitations, and any possible benefits (free game, open source, community activity, etc.)

Mars icecream (talkcontribs)

I almost agree.

Mirh (talkcontribs)
30fps is, unfortunately, incredibly common

The "expectations default" is not about what games commonly use, but it derives from what a common person normally requires to enjoy the game.

That's the lowest common multiple. It's not like you can even pretend everybody to know what are the "market customs".

And besides, I'd also argue about that. When you say "common" as in "many games has it", with "many" as in "a large number of games has it", still it totally miss the actually relevant point that the *majority* of games hasn't it.

Link Satonaka (talkcontribs)

I have no problem with your new additions, though I do question your decision to remove the "rare" from "rare chance".

I have several hundred hours into this game, all played at 60fps. I have fallen through the floor while sliding down a ladder exactly once.

Maybe you're doing something I'm not that makes it more likely for you to encounter the bug. If so, it would be incredibly valuable to find out what you are doing to get the bug to happen.

Mars icecream (talkcontribs)

On Undead Burg, one ladder beneath the bridge close to rats, another near the enemies throwing firebombs always results in falling through the floor. At least two problematic ladders on that level. I have seen a Reddit thread confirming this, I will add it as source when I find it. And as far as I know I don't do anything out of the ordinary, I don't point the camera down as speculated on IRC. Try sliding down those ladders I mentioned at 60fps. Please capture video if you don't fall through.

Link Satonaka (talkcontribs)
Mars icecream (talkcontribs)

Exactly, you drop to a room below.

No, not that ladder. This ladder beneath the dragon: https://youtu[dot]be/6_BknNY_iS4?t=2m43s (spam filter prevents from sharing links)

Reply to "30fps lock *has* to be in the article"
Link Satonaka (talkcontribs)

http://pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/Dark_Souls:_Prepare_to_Die_Edition#High_frame_rate

I find the advice here questionable.

-The two settings in steps 5 and 6 don't actually do anything and they are clearly marked as "not ready to use" in the dsfix config. These steps should just be removed.

-Unless a user has 120Hz monitors but keeps their desktop at 60Hz (why would anyone do that?), there is no reason to use fullscreen mode at all.

-Not all "high frame rate" monitors are 120Hz. For the sake of accuracy, the instructions should read, "Change FPSlimit 60 to the refresh rate of your monitor, for example FPSlimit 120".

-It should also be noted that the physics engine is reported to have issues at 60FPS- a reasonable assumption is that the issues would multiply with the increased FPS. I use 60FPS and I have only experienced one instance of falling through the floor in many hours of play, but there should still be a warning that this could happen.

I'm creating this discussion because I feel I should explain some of these corrections before just jumping in. I'll make the changes myself if there are no objections in a few days time.

Tmplt (talkcontribs)

As far as I know too, steps 5 & 6 does nothing. But 120Hz is regarded as HFR here among other places. Thus why it's 120fps on every page.

Problems with the physics-engine at 96Hz has the same effect as an unlock at 60fps; barely noticeable unless you're actively looking for them. Dropping down a ladder once and clipping through the world can happen once, but not again after coming back after respawning. I don't think the higher frame-rate you have the more problems you get.

Mirh (talkcontribs)

Definitively.

Though, I would recommend you to check whether there are actually problems with high framerates before everything else..
My hint would be to lower as much as possible details (so you get as much frames per second as possible) and play a bit to see if something gets screwed.

In this case the entire fixbox would become pointless

Tmplt (talkcontribs)

Well, we can already confirm problems going over the 30fps lock.

Unless we're checking if there are more problems at a very high frame-rate.

Link Satonaka (talkcontribs)

I realize 120Hz is the most common, I was just proposing a more idiot-proof set of instructions. It's not terribly important.

If the bugs are twice as frequent at 120FPS vs 60FPS, that's still an insignificant number of bug encounters: at 60FPS I have encountered one instance of falling through the floor in over 100 hours of play. Double that is once every 50 hours under 120FPS, so I don't think it will be easy to confirm this. In that light, I suppose it doesn't need to be mentioned under HFR as it is already mentioned under essential improvements, where a 59FPS cap is recommended. But again, for the sake of clarity/idiot proofing, it might be a good idea to make a note of the clipping issues under HFR.

I think we're all agreed about removing steps 5-6, I'll do that for now.

Link Satonaka (talkcontribs)

I've made an official note of "falling through the floor for ladders" since it wasn't previously mentioned and it kind of important to know. I've also confirmed that increasing the framerate beyond 60fps causes additional issues, referenced with video evidence I personally captured. I've got it on my onedrive, is there a way to upload it to the wiki itself?

Tmplt (talkcontribs)

I don't believe there is a convenient way to do that here. It's probably a better idea to upload it as an unlisted video to Youtube and link to it instead.

Mirh (talkcontribs)

Elaborate better.

Is there just a limited amount of bugs that only gets triggered 1/0 (yes or no) when you pass a specific threshold?

Or is it that the more you depart from the normal cap, the more bugs become important and noticeable?
For example, would it be possible to play at, say, 600 FPS ?

Link Satonaka (talkcontribs)

Falling through the floor at higher than 30FPS is an old and well known issue, search for "ladder" in the comments here http://blog.metaclassofnil.com/?p=232

I can't elaborate much, the issue is probably just "collision detection" which fails in different ways at different framerates. I do not encounter the ladder issue enough to properly give you the highest "bug free" framerate; somewhere above 30 is all that is certain. I could find out exactly when the slow-running bug manifests. The problem is I know it manifests around 80FPS, and when you're that close to 60fPS you might as well just use 60FPS...

Re: Limited amount of bugs- up to 120FPS there are for sure two known bugs. I don't know if more will manifest at 600FPS.

Mirh (talkcontribs)

If there's something that GTA:SA as taught me is: you'll be less annoyed overall with constant 30fps cap than with many little not-so-consciously-noticed bugs.
You can always get used to the first problem, instead with the other you never know if what you just did, do and are going to is really what you was exactly supposed to do, or just a physics jest

My vote goes for HFR = false.

Reply to "High Framerate section"

DSfix image stretch warning is completly wrong

2
178.198.36.96 (talkcontribs)

Hey there I saw someone wrote: "No matter what resolution you set in the options, Dark Souls will render an anamorphic 1024x720 picture and stretch it to fit the user's chosen resolution. " That should not stand under the Title DSfix because that clearly fixes this problem if you turn ingame AA (I think it was the AA) off. This is somewhat missleading and at the moment it looks like the DSfix would not help, that should maybe be changed?

Garrett (talkcontribs)

Thanks for the suggestion; I've rewritten it to make it clearer that DSfix fixes this issue rather than causing it. :)

Reply to "DSfix image stretch warning is completly wrong"

Problem with Zero Day Protection not unlocking the files

1
2.25.226.232 (talkcontribs)
Reply to "Problem with Zero Day Protection not unlocking the files"
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