Talk:Lego Star Wars: The Complete Saga

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Your Lego Star Wars: The Complete Saga reverts

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Gordonfreeman1 (talkcontribs)

Hi,

Rather than childishly withholding fixes people need based on your personal whims and fancies I'll let the site moderators and administrators decide on the validity of your claims. Until the decision comes from a competent authority I politely ask that you do not revert fixes from people who need them, thanks.

Marioysikax (talkcontribs)

I was also about to write this.

I would also suggest not to engage in edit war. Even if the fix is dumb, blackbird, you are the one that keeps the negativity up. Coming to IRC just to shout for help on your side isn't helping.

Vetle seems to be checking the game out because if the fix worked for two, then there might be something going on there which can be solved better than terminating your internet connection.

Mirh (talkcontribs)

Ehrm, actually it was Blackbird to come on IRC.

Anyway: I'm the only one in here that knows what a BSOD is?
It's a kernel panic which happens in kernel space programs, such as drivers indeed.

There's no way in hell for a game to touch anything there.
So.. my reasoned guess is that we are talking of a hardware problem. Which in turn means, if you hadn't get it, that it's no game problem.

Gordonfreeman1 (talkcontribs)

There are several games that have DRM triggers that run internet checks during game execution, in some cases ruining game performance. The BSOD here was tied to a specific recurring issue I've found tied to network connections (IRQL less or equal). I've made my case to Andytizer by mail already for why I consider this information to be useful for those who need them. I could reliably reproduce this error on my machine and found several threads with people presenting exactly the same issue, so it is not an isolated case. If someone finds a fix thanks to this discussion great. What I do not find ok is a random user just reverting things and demanding ever escalating proof because his/her ego is hurt by being challenged on a revert without having done any research prior to the revert.

Mirh (talkcontribs)
There are several games that have DRM triggers that run internet checks during game execution

First, internet check just happens at launch time. If not even on first launch only.

Second, which DRM are we talking about? Steam drm? Seriously?

I've found tied to network connections (IRQL less or equal)

Yes, and that's indeed a hardware problem. 100% NOT related to any game whatsoever. Unless I mean, ring 0 safedisc/starforce but this is not the case.

demanding ever escalating proof because his/her ego ..

It's not about ego. It's about having sense in the first place.

.. do you even know what a driver is?

Gordonfreeman1 (talkcontribs)

Mirh, either you do not have much experience with DRM in general or are intentionally assuming I don't know what I'm talking about, fair enough. I'm a software developer with experience on the system side and a gamer for decades with an interest in how DRM works. I suggested a possible investigation route for this issue based on the symptoms, not the root cause per se. Steam DRM is a joke but individual releases can attach their own custom DRM on top of it (including Securom etc which have trigger-based checking in more recent versions) which may cause such issues. Various software configurations and interactions including those by the video drivers provided by the manufacturer themselves (as can be seen in known issues in release notes) can cause BSODs due to a variety of in-game events, a kernel panic can be triggered by any hardware operation the OS deems "unsafe" and the chain leading to said crash can be tough to pinpoint. If the issue is repeatable and no other game has it on the same system and the issue happens to other different systems over time there has to be a link between how the issue was fixed and the cause of the crash.

And no, it is not sense when after proof that was asked for is provided,the requirements are suddenly changed. Once proof is provided, the reasonable course of action would have been to use the talk pages to probe but more importantly before reverting anything with a "Nonsense, his system is broken" on the first edit, a simple search would have shown this issue predates the report and bears investigating. It is not my intention to escalate but withholding a fix from people who might need them on a whim isn't right.

Mirh (talkcontribs)

Listen, we are deep 5 posts and I still didn't hear a single word about the DRM itself.

Nor any single word about bsod error codes or anything.

I read (retail perhaps?) had SecuROM. Is this your case? Neither SecuROM make use special drivers.

You can even post on the forums, and we'll try to come up with whatever hardware issue you have. But I really dislike this kind of knights vs peasants reddit-like drama.

Gordonfreeman1 (talkcontribs)

It is not my intention to make it seem like a knights vs peasants debate, I'm just listing my points. You're convinced it is a hardware issue, I don't think it is because every other of the thousands of games I've run on my system do not have this issue and other people with arguably vastly different hardware configurations have had this exact same issue as well. I've mentioned the error code that was on the BSOD (IRQL not less or equal), would gladly discuss this on the forums if it would be more productive since a long term fix would benefit more people, what further information would be needed on the forums?

I am aware that retail had SecuRom but the Steam version does not have the information available. As I stated before I only suggested that it might be DRM establishing network connections in the background based on and causing BSODs because of some problem on some configurations/software combinations, might even be an exploit targeting some sort of port it opens. But again, this is a supposition. The whole point of posting the fix was that it has happened more than once for several people and if it helps other people encountering the issue to fix it that's pretty much what PCGW is about. Identifying the root cause would be great and if able I'd like to assist but it is important to highlight here that this is not just about me or my hardware and that I have covered the points under discussion earlier (DRM, spread of the issue, error codes).

Mirh (talkcontribs)

For example your specs, and in particular the protection id (linked above) output to realize which DRM we are even talking about.

And "IRQL not less or equal" is not a code, it's a name, title or whatever you want to call it.

You can probably see details in windows event viewer.

Gordonfreeman1 (talkcontribs)

Ok, I'll run the tests and revert back on the forum. Might take a few days as currently taken up but will respond. Also, nice to see PID is back in dev, had thought the tool died several years ago.

Gordonfreeman1 (talkcontribs)

Blackbird, seriously, trying an edit war with mods watching via a public IP?

Mirh, bringing to your attention the most recent reversion by Blackbird which clearly indicates personal rather than community reasons for reversion despite the issue being under investigation.

Blackbird (talkcontribs)

Not my IP. False flagging hard huh?

Gordonfreeman1 (talkcontribs)

Then why was updated since my last visit in the comments? Either way, your targeted edits are clearly visible, provide a valid reason or wait until a mod decides. Unless of course you wish to continue childish and petty games without cause.

Blackbird (talkcontribs)

You should listen to your own advice. I asked you for a source and you brushed me off. Instead of reverting it and adding one you started pointless crusade.

Gordonfreeman1 (talkcontribs)

I provided you with 2 separate threads, one after you asked for a source, another after you asked for yet another. There is no brushing off here except for your own lack of response when questioned (lurking on IRC is fun and all but two can play this game). Your needs keep escalating and besides you are not the one who has the authority to decide. Not to mention you never even bothered validating your own claims, simple search.

Blackbird (talkcontribs)

I still only see 1 source on the page. So I am blind then?

Gordonfreeman1 (talkcontribs)

Of course, I replied to you via the comments on the edit. If you wish to have it linked on the main page that is fine (and there are tonnes of fixes on PCGW without sources so your needs again don't make sense), otherwise read the edit history.

Blackbird (talkcontribs)

Why would you add it to an edit? That's absolutely useless. Add it to page now.

Gordonfreeman1 (talkcontribs)

Why would you pretend there was no second source when you are clearly reading the edit history and reverting things on a whim? I will add it, meanwhile I expect you to act in a civilised way, this site belongs to the community, not to you.

Blackbird (talkcontribs)

It's not my job to add it to the page. You should've added it in the first place. It was your workaround not mine.
As for requirements. Just because most pages don't have references doesn't mean it's good. Especially if the claim looks suspicious.

Gordonfreeman1 (talkcontribs)

That is still not a reason to delete a fix without checking first. You may have prevented people who need it from getting access to it. Five second search revealed the threads I shared. Anyways, I'll add the links as a reference later today. Meanwhile you can't pretend I didn't provide them to you anymore so another baseless reversion on any of my edits will be reported publicly.

Mirh (talkcontribs)
That is still not a reason to delete a fix without checking first.

Technically, the "check" was already inside your source (for AC at least).

People lower AA (which is totally NOT a issue by itself)... and they still have problems.

For the records, uplay sync would happen in uplay client. And of course, as always, nobody with any sound reasoning. Just unproved guesses that might go from a driver problem, to a faulty PSU.

Gordonfreeman1 (talkcontribs)

The linked thread (and several others on Uplay forums) clearly shows that the AA in the game has abnormal performance issues even on 780TIs that are well beyond requirements. The fix works for some people and not for others and the alternate solution was proposed, I do not see where your issue is coming from.

As for Uplay sync during the game you may not be aware that the small pulsing black square that appears during saves in AC games synchronises part of the game data with Uplay (not the client, the network storing Ubisoft game data) and this is where some of the in-game notifications listing for example ongoing multiplayer events, leaderboard positions, etc come from. In cases where the sync is slow/blocked that pulsating square can continue until the session is ended. All parts listing conjecture are also clearly marked. This thread is not for AC anyway but might as well respond to clear things up.

Mirh (talkcontribs)

Abnormal or not abnormal, could even be some special graphics effect: still, "low fps" --> "lower details" seems too.. like too stupid? At most mention it on notes like here for broken vsync.

And... can't you just disable notification, overlay, sync or put uplay offline? You see that it doesn't make sense?
And besides, if you have to disable the whole connection, the fix should go under issues unresolved, considering you get a big downside.

Gordonfreeman1 (talkcontribs)

What part of what is listed shows lower detail? My part of the fix only covers the framerate, no options change whatsoever. I added the AA as it seems to help many people with high end cards as the references show. Even with the Uplay client in offline mode the low fps persists on hardware far more powerful than the game requires. As I have described as far as the game goes there is no downside, no progression-blocking changes, cloud saves are easily synced. The issue being low fps, fixing that is what matters so IMHO it fits the bill, no part of it is unresolved as a result of the solution given the entirety of the game operates normally.

Mirh (talkcontribs)
What part of what is listed shows lower detail? no options change whatsoever.

AA is a kind of detail, in general.

AA?

Even with the Uplay client in offline mode the low fps persists on hardware far more powerful than the game requires.

So, my guess is that save sync as nothing to do with it.

As I have described as far as the game goes there is no downside

It's about the user, not the game.
There are even games that work only once you limit windows to boot with just 2GB. Can they be considered flawlessly fixed?

Gordonfreeman1 (talkcontribs)
AA is a kind of detail, in general.

The very next sentence addresses that:

My part of the fix only covers the framerate, no options change whatsoever. I added the AA as it seems to help many people with high end cards as the references show.
So, my guess is that save sync as nothing to do with it.

That is a guess. Coming back to your point about accuracy, until and unless the game's behaviour is analysed in more detail, there is no guarantee that the client being offline means the game does not attempt network connections on its own.

There are even games that work only once you limit windows to boot with just 2GB. Can they be considered flawlessly fixed?

Is there a policy regarding a fix being flawless? All fixes require effort and what this one requires is nowhere near as major.

Mirh (talkcontribs)
My part of the fix only covers the framerate, no options change whatsoever.

AA is an option?

And no wonder it's heavy! It's FSAA, not MSAA.

there is no guarantee that the client being offline means the game does not attempt network connections on its own

Folks told me it has no networking related imports.

Is there a policy regarding a fix being flawless?

Seems pretty normal common sense tbh.

Having the game running at native resolution, shouldn't have "buy a monitor with less pixels" fix.

Blackbird (talkcontribs)
Gordonfreeman1 (talkcontribs)

Not a workaround:

the entirety of the game operates normally.

Mirh (talkcontribs)

I totally don't see why this would be personal, rather than still related to the information itself.
If you are referring to the AC page that seems a stupid fixbox even to my eyes. Really, you should take stuff you read on the net with a pinch more of salt. Does it make sense? Yes, no. Correlation isn't causation and all.

Anyway, the ip is a proxy in USA, so whatever.

Last, it wouldn't hurt if you did stuff one at once, and you could get back to the Star wars issue to begin with. Then discussing the rest might be easier.

Gordonfreeman1 (talkcontribs)

ThatOneReaper has already intervened on this issue following a discussion and review of the incident (section Editing war warning). If there are any further points of interest to discuss let us do so on appropriate talk pages.

The fixbox might seem stupid but it works and I have explained further details on another post to Blackbird. The fixes listed in the new fixbox are borne out by the experience of people in other threads on for example the Uplay forums (with GPUs across a range of specifications and mostly high end for the release time of the game). Besides, any parts that are conjecture (e.g. Uplay sync) are clearly marked and I have seen such comments on other fix pages without issue.

Mirh (talkcontribs)

It's not about "just working". It's about being accurate.

No information is better than wrong information.

For everything I found, it could be uplay overlay, like why not AV software (that overflows or whatever when analyzing some info the game sends)

And for the third time, I really see zero investigation from your part.
Is CPU the bottleneck? Is GPU? Is HDD? Which DRM we are talking about? What's the BSOD error code?

Gordonfreeman1 (talkcontribs)

Mirh, I already stated several times including to you what information is available and what I will provide when possible on the forums - a point that has also been repeated on IRC with further information added to other people investigating the issue. I have responded to the other issues in your other post on this thread. Just because the fix is unusual that does not mean it isn't valid since it works. Excluding the game from the AV had no effect so it invalidates the AV as a root cause.

Mirh (talkcontribs)
Just because the fix is unusual that does not mean it isn't valid since it works.

It's not about being unusual. It's about not being pertinent. It's a DRIVER problem.

You have a point when you say that it's not mentioned otherwise, given we still have to come up with a generic troubleshooting page. But, still, it's not like I wouldn't like to find the root cause regardless.

Excluding the game from the AV had no effect so it invalidates the AV as a root cause.

Absolutely not.

Most of times, it just stops the AV from scanning the files handled by said process. Network monitoring is still on though.
And better not to mention what not even turning it off is enough.

Gordonfreeman1 (talkcontribs)

it's not like I wouldn't like to find the root cause regardless.

And as I said I am fully willing to assist in finding it.

Most of times, it just stops the AV from scanning the files handled by said process. Network monitoring is still on though.=

I had allowed it through the firewall as well. Agreed that had that not been done would put the results in question.

And better not to mention what not even turning it off is enough.

Sometimes sure, but this game does work for many and probably most people, until more information comes in this is one of the possible investigation routes.

Silent (talkcontribs)

If you're a developer with decades of experience, surely pinpointing a simple BSoD shouldn't be too hard? Monitoring network activity on game launch with the connection disabled and then potentially comparing it with a run with the connection estabilished (so you see where it cuts) shouldn't be a rocket science. And even self-conducted tests do add notability, since for now the workaround seems to be of dubious reliability.

Gordonfreeman1 (talkcontribs)

I said gamer for decades, my uptake of development was more recent for obvious reasons and my interest on the system side is less Windows and more specialised device. As I have stated I pointed at a possible reason given the error code occurred previously due to some network-related shenanigans and I never claimed that that was the root cause, just a possible course of investigation. I posted this fix several months after I played the game last while randomly browsing PCGW, the minidumps had been erased by then as I needed some space and currently I do not have immediate access to the game hence could not monitor network connections when asked as I have stated in other posts. I do not see where I can post self-conducted tests other than the forums here of which I became aware when discussing with Mirh and again I have already stated I will provide the results when able. I am fully aware this may seem at first unreliable being an unusual fix but given that it actually does work and the behaviour does not occur with any of the very large number of other games and applications run on my system it cannot be a coincidence. The symptoms are also exactly spot-on for the linked references.

Mirh (talkcontribs)

Minidumps have been earsed, but as I said plenty of times, check windows event viewer. Sometimes that thing stores years of logs.

Speaking of star wars instead, it has no special DRM.

Gordonfreeman1 (talkcontribs)

I am aware of that but had erased the event viewer logs due to a default setting in a system cleaning software which is why I mentioned on IRC that I need to reproduce the issue. For DRM on IRC also mentioned the same, just plain Steam DRM on my PID scan log. When I reproduce the issue the write-up will be on the forum as discussed earlier.

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